Sorry all ...but Brexit

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Skinner, May 21, 2019.

  1. Ski

    Skinner Active Member

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    May goes to Europe behind her negotiators back and agrees a deal off her own bat where the EU basically tell her what she can have ignoring anything she really wants. sadly she agrees to this. negotiator resigns..

    Puts this to our Parliament who basically say "Go Boll*xs " we arnt agreeing to that pile of sh*te, back to EU and tells them we wont agree, EU say tuff luck luv it's that or nowt, you agreed now go sort it.

    Back she comes and after 2 more failed attempts to get our MP's to agree finally decides to speak to the opposition as it's "essential to get their input" and that this is vital, BUT they wont play ball so she now starts to blame THEM for her failure to get it through...despite her own MP's also voting against it in record numbers.

    Now it's attempt number 4 which already looks dead.....question!!!! at what point do you do the decent thing, put your hand up, admit YOU fkd it up and RESIGN...….and no, not as a trade off to get YOUR deal through which she also tried..

    Back to the people for me....feel free to savage my assessment, it's just my take on what's happening...
     
  2. scarf

    scarf Well-Known Member

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    Just watched the discussion on Newsnight and found it very difficult to follow.
    I thought there were laws on upskirting now.
     
  3. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    One minor pedantic point - May didnt go behind her negotiators back - the whole cabinet agreed to the WA at a chequers meeting when various commentators were pointing out a lot of them probably didn't understand what they were agreeing to. ( as one Brexit negotiator didn't understand that Dover was important thats not a great shock). Also Davis did sod all negotiating so May had to do some of it for him

    It was always going to be a problem to leave in a way that was promised but the way that May and the Tory party have gone about it has been beyond belief.

    The problem is brexit means different things to different people and many forget that whatever happens we need to still trade with the EU and they were never going to agree to the cake and eat it idea
    Couple that with many of the Tory MP's being solely concerned with their careers and not caring about the country and we get to here


    Still somehow today May has managed to produce a speech to make things even worse - I didn't think that was possible. I still dont see how this can be unf*cked from where we are now. Even if May goes tomorrow and a new leader is appointed (s)he faces the same 3 choices
    Leave with Mays Deal
    Leave with No Deal
    Revoke

    None of which have a majority of supporters in the commons

    Any new leader promising to renegotiate a better deal is either lying or stupid - or both
     
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  4. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I know we are a tthe opposite end of the spectrum re Brexit ( I really don't see 'No deal' as being a "national emergency" at least not in the medium to long term since it is business and industry that 'rules' in the World and not transient Governments and politicians ) your last paragraphs above are a succinct summary of where we are. May must be the worst PM in the history of British politics. She is completely deluded. Sadly the quality of of politicians is at an all time low. Whilst I agree with universal suffrage when it comes to the population voting, surely the time must come when to stand for office should be preceded by some sort of test to determine basic competency and not a case of who you know in the local Con/Lab/ Assocation or Trade Union Headquarters. It is no better in Italy since some of the decisions and processes that come out of the senate are beyond belief.
     
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  5. Tyk

    Tyketical Masterstroke Well-Known Member

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    My favourite thing at the moment is the likes of Raab and Johnson crying about ‘not honouring manifesto promises’ - a bit like the money to the NHS then...
     
  6. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    I did find a possible contender for a worse PM the other day - John Russell, 1st Earl of Russell

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Russell,_1st_Earl_Russell

    "As Prime Minister he was less successful. He headed a government that failed to deal with the Irish Famine, a disaster which saw the loss of a quarter of Ireland's population. It has been said that his ministry of 1846 to 1852 was the ruin of the Whig party: it never composed a Government again, and his ministry of 1865 to 1866 was very nearly the ruin of the Liberal Party also"

    So given that she hasn't managed to kill off 1/4 of the population of one of the four nations I would suggest that she is not quite the worst ever.... yet.
     
  7. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    LOL.
     
  8. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Now if she can do the same for the Tory party...
     
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  9. gosportyke

    gosportyke Well-Known Member

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    I think I am going to go with both of those options! The whole process is fecked
     
  10. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    Nail hit on a couple of things in this, the main thing being no option had a majority and any option will struggle as MP’s clearly don’t want a Brexit in any format.

    I would amend the part about Tory MP to most MP today and this is exactly why politics today is so bad, most now are career Politicians as opposed to local representatives.
     
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  11. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I agree - I thought that when I reread my post this morning but couldn't be bothered to change it.
     
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  12. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    Shows you what a set of hypocrites the Tories are. Anna Soubry who defected to join
    UK Change was on the Daily Politics show and sneered sarcastically every time the policies she
    once supported were being discussed. Agreed with an MP on the same programme, who said
    May's attempts to force " her deal" through the House was like watching the film " Titanic" over
    and over and expecting a different outcome. He added " like her bill, it sinks every time."

    No wonder they are running scared of a General Election. The polls for next weeks Euros predict
    they will suffer heavy losses and such is the anger in the Country over their Brexit failures, they would
    not fare much better in a GE. Have to say, my own lot are not exactly covering themselves in glory.
    May needs to go asap, but the thoughts of buffoon Boris as the new PM, must send shudders down
    everyone's spine surely. ? When they were doling out Cabinet jobs, he was asked " do you fancy the
    Foreign Secretary" and it's likely he asked " what's she like."?
     
  13. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    The difficulty has mainly come from trying to keep both sides of the debate on board. It simply isn't possible. It was always a fallacy that we could leave and enjoy "the exact same benefits". It really needs to go back to the people with the honest choice between leaving without a deal and remaining. The sides could then make their case in the light that a compromise has been demonstrated to be impossible. I greatly fear that leave would win again but at least it would be an honest and realistic choice.

    As for Tory leader, Rory Stewart would inject some intelligence and integrity back into the party but I fear he may not have the populist profile they will probably go for.
     
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  14. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Agree about the Tories, but I would have the choice of voting Major Dan who despises Corbyn and argued passionately for Remain but now opposes another referendum and asks you to vote for a party still led by Jezza?
     
  15. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    And tell you what, if Corbyn had an ounce of competence he'd be proposing a fresh vote of no-confidence in the government given the reaction to May's speech yesterday. True, that might lead to Boris, but it might also give him his desired GE.
     
  16. Carlycu5tard

    Carlycu5tard Active Member

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    I cannot see any way out of this. - and I am praying to god that the Euro elections send a clear message to everyone - although I can't see that happening either.

    My impartial analysis of the options in no particular order.

    Option 1.

    A full election - this delivers a hung parliament - and not a workable one either. We're no further forwards.

    Option 2a

    A new leaver prime minister -

    A leaver couldn't get hard brexit through parliament either.so either they ignore parliament - not an option - or they just run down the clock to frustrate parliament. - chaos

    Option 2b.

    A new remainer prime minister. They have no option but to craft an excuse for a second referendum - so maybe this what May should do anyway.


    Option 3a

    New referendum. - result is brexit

    Well we've already had two years of this - and the MP's screw it up - with a remainer in charge - after a "failed" referendum they have to resign and we're back to square one.

    A good solid leave vote might wake up some politicians but again a leave vote would in the wildest imagination still only creep over 50% so I dont' see how it takes us forwards

    Option 3b

    A referendum result for remain - it would be very close - I can't see the result going anything other than 48 / 52 one way or the other still - and anything below 66% remain leaves it open to demands for a third referendum - anything below 60% remain. looks like 50 / 50 more calls about bias and project fear - you get civil unrest - and a vote of no confidence in the govt. which leads to another election and a badly hung parliament - and worst with smug gloating from project fear a lot of unstable disgruntled leavers and the further rise of right wing parties - it would be just carnage.


    Option 4.

    There is a clear message from the European elections which all the MP's wake up to. - Well if that clear message is leave Cooper, Watson and Jarvis and the BBC will continue to put their fingers in their ears and goo blah blah blah and ignroe ti.

    There are far too many remain options on the ballot paper to deliver a clear remain message I think. Green, change, liberal, SNP, - whilst some will add them all up - this totalling will not be accepted by leave - so this message will be diluted. I therefore can't see this happening as much as I might accept the outcome if this lot had got organised.



    So this is not my analysis of what I want to happen. This is my analysis of what I think would happen.

    If I were in Theresa May's shoes this could be why she's taken the least worst route - which yes - no one likes. But that's how I view what she's done. Got the least worst for everyone. Which is no good for anyone. But we just through milkshakes at folk rather than shoot them.
     
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  17. Ski

    Skinner Active Member

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    Well with slight variations on mi original post it appears most of us are of the same mind....
    Iits all fkd and were fkd with it.....sadly we are now even turning on politicians who would been seen at one time as being one of our
    own .
    I think a new vote would see us stay and the justification for this would be the realisation for many just what leaving really entails.
    Would be good if one of the main partys actually wrote down the true facts and put them out for general consumption, minus the scaremongering and big red buses...….we actually may be able to go alone without Europe but any decent facts seem to have disappeared among the rhetoric of political self interest..

    Anyway...soon be start of Championship season...COYR
     
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  18. anstonred

    anstonred Well-Known Member

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    She should have resigned after the 1st vote on her “deal” - a record “No” vote in Parliament!
     
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  19. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    There’s no deal to be had that is better than remaining that is a fact .
     
  20. Red

    Red-Taff. Well-Known Member

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    What no one seems to be considering is that come this time next week the European Parliament will be very different to what it is today.

    The Nationalist parties are likely to make massive gains.
     

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