The recruitment process according to GG

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Gally, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Lok

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,587
    Likes Received:
    1,149
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    But he didn’t did he? He invented a statistical model to search the market for players and provide analytical reports and trends. He had no direct involvement in recruitment based on that.

    And wasn’t this in response to claims that James Cryne signed all the players?
     
    Kettlewell likes this.
  2. Bri

    Brian Mahoneys Waist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    1,923
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    If they and as you suggest Patrick banked all the profits where do they get the money from to keep the club going.
     
  3. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,089
    Likes Received:
    3,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I like the recruitment strategy it's always been the same since the cryne days I'm lead to believe with the manager having the final say. Wilson got to sign some older more experienced lads as he requested (lita,treacy,Turnbull..) but the managers/head coach always had the final say.
    The thing that worries me is we signed Potts and he still had 2 years left on his contract and I think We were too quick to cash in. Hope it's not the same with our other best players but this week will tell.
    I could understand Patrick cashing in on bree and Connor with the contract situation. Interesting that Connor turned down the 14k a week that would have made him the highest earner in bfc history.
     
    Jimmy viz likes this.
  4. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    20,144
    Likes Received:
    5,592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I think some will certainly make it look at Potts straight in at PNE with 2 goals in 2 games. Others will fall by the wayside. In practical terms we are where we were before we started the plan which is lower than our “historic” position so I just can’t see how we can say it’s been an on field success. I think it’s fair to say the jury is still out.

    As for our current team I’d say we have a much better and more tactically aware manager and whilst we were in the championship recruited a top class L1 team. Our challenge is to both develop the lads we have signed and when we go up recruit a top class championship side. I think that be hard but isn’t impossible.

    Onwards and upwards.
     
  5. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,469
    Likes Received:
    2,690
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Football Fan
    Location:
    Tarn
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Nigh on 14,000 gates, £6.05m tv money. For a start.
     
  6. JLWBigLil

    JLWBigLil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    43,511
    Likes Received:
    6,191
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I like the cut of your jib, sir.
    Even if you do keep pointing out that you're a lot younger than me!:D:D
     
  7. Van

    Van Basten Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    Retired Fitter
    Location:
    Pogmoor
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Who is responsible for assessing fitness, stamina and temperament (l.e. Moncur, Cavaré, Isgrove, Thiam, and Hedges etc.)
     
  8. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    7,431
    Likes Received:
    2,390
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Combination of Stendel, his other coaches, physios etc.

    Can’t do a lot about players eating habits away from the club.

    Moncur signed for us & was joking about how him & Elliott Lee lives off ready meals & couldn’t cook.

    Had to laugh last season as well, Adam Hammill’s Mrs posting on social media about how great Thiam’s mums cooking was whilst Thiam wasn’t fit enough to start a game
     
  9. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    35,917
    Likes Received:
    3,443
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DB3K Towers
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Same here. He knew the good of having a range of ages bringing different skills to the table. Having guys like Wilkinson and Hendre around will have helped the younger guys no end. Would have gave them a spring in their step training and playing with guys who had the careers they did. Older heads to give advice, be like a father figure to the younger lads and teach them what they know. Future sell on value shouldn't be everything. It can be argued a few older players in our team and the players we have linked to moves away would be valued higher.
     
  10. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I agree with what you say here, just think people are missing the point that if we had continued with the correct recruitment strategy when we went up we might not be where we are now. When we got promoted we never recruited we stood still, that team was good enough for the Championship. As our model was to buy, develop and sell, we should have identified some of those players were going to leave and started to recruit that summer, instead we stood still and ‘missed a year’
     
    Jimmy viz and tyketastic like this.
  11. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Agreed
     
  12. Met

    Metatarsal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,411
    Likes Received:
    1,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Carlton
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The analytical approach intrigues me and I think we need to give it several years before it can be really judged. Like all analytical systems, it'll be constantly being revised, challenged and changed. Data algorithms are constantly developed as I understand it, and I suspect that is where James Cryne has some expertise. The Moneyball principle as I see it is to work within a strict budget, recruit undervalued players (using the analysis as a big contributor to identify potential players) but also sell players overvalued by the market. Our opinions will clearly differ, and as much as I liked Potts, if the £1.5m + fee is correct, then I do think he is overvalued. He was effective but also limited, although he's started well at Preston and I hope he thrives there. Similar for Moncur.

    All that said, we have a golden opportunity to get back in the Championship and some balance needs applying in terms of maintaining some continuity with the team, and purely financially, their value increases. And we shouldn't underestimate the impact that Stendel has had on the players.

    I'd also love to know what data is analysed. I had my eyes opened just over a year ago, via my work, when I went to a Sports Medicine Study Day at Old Trafford. I never thought player recruitment was very scientific but, certainly at elite level, the use of science and maths is increasingly becoming part and parcel. Man Utd and Barcelona, whose Medical Director's were speakers on the day, are now using MRI scanning on youth players (from around the age of 12-13) to determine what type of muscle fibres they predominantly have and subsequently will develop the player into positions that suit their physiology. If a kid has "fast twitch" muscle fibres in the main, they'll struggle to be a box to box midfielder as their muscles fatigue faster but they typically have explosive pace, so would suit being a striker who can use short fast bursts then recover and vice versa. It's also being used in athletics where sprinters and middle distance careers are being determined at a relatively early age. Ramon Canal from Barcelona referenced a paper that Nathan Winder and Craig Sedgwick, from our club, had contributed to in respect of creating an effective medical team in professional sport.

    I might be setting a rod for my own back with 4 days of the window left but if we don't lose any of the remaining squad I think we're well capable of top two, not that anything is guaranteed, we still need a bit of luck etc.

    I've watched Barnsley during the Buckle, Dennis, Cryne and now Conway/Lee eras. We've always sold to survive. I don't think John Dennis gets anywhere near the credit he deserves but he was also in charge during a very different financial position for football. I think he'd find it more challenging to recruit well, pay market rate wages and develop the club in the present day. Whatever the view of Cryne, I think we are finally financially stable, as was his stated wish, and through the sales of the last 3-4 years, will have a steady income stream (I'm assuming we receive the big transfer fees and sell on revenue over the period of the players contract) for quite a while. Promotion adds to that, and I'm sure this isn't lost to our owners.

    Ever the optimist, I think we have to look at the long game before we can truly judge. Bad decisions will still be made, such as appointing Morais, but my gut feel is that we are in a good place on and off the pitch.
     
  13. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,089
    Likes Received:
    3,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)

    Isgrove has always been injury prone the the whole club knew that when we signed him. Same with hedges although he has had some unlucky injurys. People said thiam was unfit and over weight I just think that is his build that wasn't the reason he made mostly sub appearances last season as he was started as a lone striker at Hillsborough.
    The more concerning thing was why we loaned out mcgeehan and mowatt and stuck with the crabby twins in the middle. And never gave pinnock a chance last season.
     
    Simon De Montforte likes this.
  14. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,469
    Likes Received:
    2,690
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Football Fan
    Location:
    Tarn
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    And we never would have signed Thompson, Wilkinson, Hendrie, Ward, Hignett and most scariest of all - Neil Redfearn. Sobering thought.
     
  15. Met

    Metatarsal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,411
    Likes Received:
    1,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Carlton
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Can't disagree with the sentiment at all, but are those players out there now who would come to us in the third tier, within our budget, taking a pay cut to do so? Hendrie always stated how he could have stayed in Boro reserves earning more than we were paying but he wanted to play and achieve something.

    We also had a reasonably experienced squad when we were relegated back in 2002, retained the likes of Dyer, Sheron, Morgan and were dreadful the following season and came close to the drop again. Admittedly in very different and difficult circumstances.
     
  16. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    20,144
    Likes Received:
    5,592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Exactly this. I would presume we have a list of targets already identified and a reasonable budget to get them if we go up.
     
  17. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,390
    Likes Received:
    5,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dingle. No, really!
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  18. Red

    Reds Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,067
    Likes Received:
    929
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I agree that a mix of experienced players would be ideal but I honestly think football has changed so much it’s totally unrealistic to expect us to sign the kind of players we did 20 years ago. Take John Hendrie - what was he 31/32 - a proven premier league striker still on the bench at a premier league club - who would be the equivalent today? Troy Deeney? How much would he be on? 30k? 40k? How could we possibly pay that even if we got promoted to champ. Even if the owners decided to splash out could you imagine a situation where one player was on that much and the others were 6 or 7k?

    The other thing is these old pro’s Wilko, Thompson, even back to Glavin - they were that desperate to play football they’d drop down the leagues just to get a game. Would a modern pro do that? A 30 year old premier league player would rather sit in the reserves and earn 50k a week than come to Barnsley.

    I just think football has changed so much, the financial gulf is so huge I don’t think we can use 20 year old examples of how the club should be operating now
     
    tosh, Skryptic, Row Z and 11 others like this.
  19. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,390
    Likes Received:
    5,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dingle. No, really!
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Good post. A modern day John Hendrie would also have lucrative options in China and the US.
    I'm not saying it's impossible to find a new John Hendrie and if one were out there we should have the flexibility to consider him. But the chances are much slimmer.
    Players of the age range below Hendrie but over 25 who can operate at top end Championship levels.....we simply can't afford them.
     
    Reds Fan and Metatarsal like this.
  20. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    35,917
    Likes Received:
    3,443
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DB3K Towers
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I wouldn't expect a player to Hendrie or Wilkinson standard. What I would say is there will be guys out there who are say 30 years old and played 300 plus career games that could do a job for us ticking every box that we look for in a player, apart from not being 25 or under.
     

Share This Page