This Govt money for 'driverless cars'----

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tekkytyke, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    What a waste of money. Now I am not a Luddite. The last 10 years before I retired I worked in Design and innovation in IT Telecoms.
    Driverless cars are way off being fit for purpose. As a former DoT ADI I never ceased to be amazed at the human brain's abilities when it came to managing the complexities and decision making requirements of what seems to be a simple task but in reality is highly complex i.e. driving a car in traffic.
    I was even more amazed though, at the human brain's ability to come up with new and ingenious way to 'cock it up'.
    In the future we no doubt WILL have autonomous vehicles but mixing humans and self drriving vehicles will never work IMO.
    Even now they require someone to be in the driving seat to 'take over' in certain situations. Now I don't know about you but that, to me, is tantamount to sitting next to a learner driver requiring concentration whilever the vehicle is moving to be able to 'step in' if things start to go wrong. So you might as well be driving yourself as it you cannot relax. In fact I am more relaxed as a driver than as a passenger. So if you cannot fully trust a machine, what is the point. Which bring me to the law...
    Currently, even if the vehicle is parked, if ignition keys are present the human in the vehicle is the 'driver' and deemed to be in control of the vehicle (back (people over the limit who get into back seat to sleep it off can be convicted of being Drunk in Charge as they are legally responsible. So if a driverless car hits another when you are in the driver's seat or not who is responsible? The law needs clarifying. If you hit a driverless car, how do you argue fault against a team of barristers representing a vehicle manufacturer in denial that their system is fallible.
    Things like build up of snow,road dirt rock salt etc blocking sensors on a vehicle will impact reliability. AI has a long long way to go before it can use intuition and cover an almost infinite combination of factors making up the driving conditions at any given moment.
    Anyone who points out that reaction times of machines are faster than humans knows little about driving. Anticipation and experience negates the need for fast reactions in almost all circumstances hence why older drivers have a far lower accident rate than young ones.
    Rant over.
     
  2. ark

    ark104 (v2) Well-Known Member

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    Tekkytyke in "I don't like change" post shocker
     
  3. Bak

    Baka Well-Known Member

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    I blame the EU.

    Barnsley Football Club's Harvey Barnes is a good Barnsley Football Club player for Barnsley Football Club, though, in't 'e? Barnsley Football Club.
     
  4. the

    thetykester Well-Known Member

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    Nowt wrong wi being a luddite, at least they were right.
     
  5. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

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    Agree with you mate, I'm in IT and I know how difficult it can be to debug software.

    You've not even mentioned the real possibility of malicious hacking of the driverless car's networks by terrorists etc. Can you imaging the carnage on our roads if most cars were driverless and somebody introduced a virus which randomly changed speed and ignored proximity sensors....
     
  6. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    I work in the cutting edge of Automation & Power. Driverless vehicles will come its just a case of when. We already have them, in part on the roads today and in fact in our sky already. One element that is a key issue in this market is that of morality and emotional artificial intelligence. if its gonna crash, who does it choose to miss and who not to.
     
    Mapplewell Red and churtonred like this.
  7. Jimmy cricket

    Jimmy cricket Well-Known Member

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    Seems the right move to rebalance the economy driverless cars are coming lets lead not follow.
     
  8. Red

    Red Mosquito Well-Known Member

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    Another technology designed to increase business profitability by reducing the number of employees required. This is not about the average family runabout, this about removing the need to employ people to drive Taxis, lorries & buses etc.
    Just another profession chucked on the scrap heap of life.
     
  9. Xer

    Xerxes Well-Known Member

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    Trouble is it's called progress. Dyson has driverless tractors and harvesters on his farm in Lincolnshire. Soon it will be a classless society of folk sitting at home watching the TV all their lives.
     
  10. Bar

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    Hence the reason why it needs funding.
     
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  11. Red

    Red Mosquito Well-Known Member

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    On the plus side, it'll eventually take all the sh1t drivers off the road.
     
  12. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    another way to look at it is if we invest early, embrace new technology for the good of our country, maybe we will become more competitive, increase exports and enable us to invest in the people of this country ( i nearly said 'even more' at the end)
     
  13. Jul

    Julian Broddle's Perm Well-Known Member

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    Japan will no doubt lead the way with this so we need to be involved early ourselves and not miss the boat.
    However, after driverless cars will follow driverless taxis, buses and lorrys which will leave a hell of a lot of drivers unemployed in a country with a growing population and shrinking industries.
    I just hope this doesn't happen in mine or my kids' lifetime.
     
  14. W1z

    W1zz Well-Known Member

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    How long before people took advantage of how driverless cars shouldn't collide or hit humans. Pedestrians could bring the road network to its knees by simply walking down the middle of road.
    How could it navigate getting out of Oakwell car park after a match.
    If you want to worry about where technology is heading, have a watch of this theory.
     
  15. archey

    archey Well-Known Member

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    I think in the meantime until driverless cars are the norm, I think driver aids should be more standard practice as opposed to optional extras in luxury vehicles. Sensors which keep you at a safe distance to the car in front, breathalysers which immobilise vehicles, and braking aids would all make roads safer and bring down car insurance premiums in the short term.

    Punishing sh!t driving by amputation would also work.
     
    Julian Broddle's Perm likes this.
  16. Red

    Red Mosquito Well-Known Member

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    I'm not getting the vibe. If the government invest to get this country at the forefront of this technology, who actually benefits? The drivers? The average bloke in the street?, nope, it'll be the shareholders in businesses that will profit from it, many of whom have absolutely no ties to this country or the people who live in it.
    I've no problem with progress, I've no problem with driverless vehicles, but I do have a problem with out right lies been dressed up as being for the good of the people.
     
  17. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Did you actually read the first two sentences of my OP? if so, how did you arrive at the conclusion that I don't like change since you have never met me or know little or nothing about me? For the record, the actual work I was engaged in came about after I chucked my job in college (at the age the tender age of 45), retrained and qualified (at my own expense using savings and a loan) and, for the last 10 years of my working life, was involved in many different IT projects with ever changing technology, each requiring a different skillset and an expectation of hitting the ground running on each one (as is often the case in IT).
    I also had a very diverse career path in my working life and took quite a lot of risks (as per above) when doing so. I actually thrive on change.

    Do you deliberately make ill informed judgements in order to provoke a response. Muppet!
     
  18. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Agree

    AI needs to progress a long way before driverless cars can travel on the same roads as human drivers. This becomes a reality. A simple example of how far it needs to come is...
    Today, I was carrying a laundry basket from the machine up to the bedroom where we keep it.
    On the stairs I saw a single sock that must have been dropped whilst the basket was going to the stairs.
    I picked it up and as it was too late to take it to the washer (I could hear that my wife had already started the wash cycle so put it in the basket otherwise I would have taken the basket upstairs, told her to hang on and taken the sock to the washer. simple enough eh? How many lines of code needed to do all that...
    Work out how to pick up and carry different shaped objects.
    Recognise route from Washer to bedroom, negotiate a flight of stairs whilst carrying basket
    Recognise a sock as the program was simply to take the empty basket upstairs,
    Work out what to do with it - making a decision based on audio input (hearing the washing machine cycle start and recognising it as such)
    If no sound input Decision call to wife as to whether or not it is too late to put sock in machine
    Decision based on audio response (requiring speech recognition and understanding of what she said) - put in basket or take sock downstairs after putting basket back in bedroom) based on that audio input from wife.
    A flow chart is reasonable to map but actually having a programme PLUS a mechanical 'android', for want of a better word, capable of carrying all that out is still a long way off in spite of huge advances in the way programming is done.
    Driving a car in traffic is many many times more complex as it required variables i.e. humans that are beyond the control of the operator.

    All very simplistic I know but even ironing a variety of clothes, is still way beyond the capability of AI otherwise there would be a very profitable market in selling such a machine. Sadly robotics is currently only useful for a repetitive tasks like assembly line work etc. Driving is not one of them (except combine harvesting machines or tractors that track a route using GPS and confined to a field.

    Many of the overly optimistic people on here, with the best will in the world frankly haven't a clue about IT and appear take for granted the wonders of the human brain. We watch in awe when a Honda robot (still 'managed' by a human operator) can jog across level surface or a robot can balance when nudged by a heavy object (something a 5 year old can do whilst carrying out complex task and reacting to visual, audio, and other sensory stimulus).

    This generation puts far too much trust in technology. Whilst advances do nlt come without people researching I often think that science spends a lot of time in some areas pondering how to do something when in reality they should be asking why, or if they should do it.
     
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  19. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    Consider this. The vehicles are manufactured here. The supply chain then is strengthened here. We can export the vehicles and technology. We create more jobs. If we offer incentives we may attract FDI and whilst that means profit to individuals it may mean also the above. Then think of how it could make the country competetive on logistics, agriculture and how public transport will help people and orgs be more effective.

    Now also imagine this. Imagine Poland, Germany, France etc going full on and taking a sdride ahead of us while we do nothing.
     
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  20. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Anyone in a driving job under the age of 50 will not work in that job until retirement. Given the current state of development you have maybe 10 years.
     

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